WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:04.810 --> 00:00:05.520 Hey everyone. 00:00:05.520 --> 00:00:08.039 Welcome to the Scientist Scaling Podcast. 00:00:08.070 --> 00:00:09.900 I'm your host, Mark Roberge. 00:00:10.230 --> 00:00:14.819 I am so excited for my guest today, Mike Weir, CRO of G2. 00:00:15.460 --> 00:00:18.530 Mike's had a phenomenal career, both in marketing and sales. 00:00:18.570 --> 00:00:19.610 It is rare. 00:00:20.395 --> 00:00:27.564 To find a CRO who has actually spent a decade in marketing and then years 00:00:27.685 --> 00:00:29.775 carrying a quota and running a sales team. 00:00:30.855 --> 00:00:35.394 And so who better to dive into the concepts of sales and marketing alignment 00:00:35.405 --> 00:00:37.815 than a gentleman who's sat on both sides. 00:00:38.300 --> 00:00:43.160 In a phenomenal culture, we're going to talk about the philosophies of that. 00:00:43.410 --> 00:00:46.959 And as always in these episodes, get very tactical. 00:00:47.670 --> 00:00:52.449 How do we embed these principles right on the front line, right into the head of the 00:00:52.449 --> 00:00:56.369 BDR, the head of the demand gen marketer, the head of the account executive. 00:00:56.689 --> 00:00:57.250 I'm excited. 00:00:57.250 --> 00:00:58.819 So with that, let's get right into it. 00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:04.810 Man, what a resume, Mike! 00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:08.610 Dartmouth and working in the government, then marketer turned salesperson, 00:01:08.780 --> 00:01:11.519 leading LinkedIn, now CRO at G2! 00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:16.080 Honestly, the biggest jump on that list for me Is marketer to salesperson? 00:01:16.630 --> 00:01:17.649 How do you get there? 00:01:17.860 --> 00:01:20.699 Yeah, so ton of stuff I learned through that. 00:01:20.940 --> 00:01:27.030 And one of them was, man, I wish that I actually had some control over 00:01:27.210 --> 00:01:30.839 customer relationships and helping shape that day to day conversation, 00:01:31.460 --> 00:01:35.199 which gave me the itch to say, all right, marketing's been amazing. 00:01:35.570 --> 00:01:37.630 I would love to be a CMO someday. 00:01:38.060 --> 00:01:40.600 I should probably go sell for a while. 00:01:40.900 --> 00:01:42.690 I should feel the pressure of carrying that quote. 00:01:42.690 --> 00:01:47.570 I should see how things connect day to day from, you know, the marketing 00:01:47.570 --> 00:01:53.029 that I'm doing to actual customer relationships that grow over time. 00:01:53.410 --> 00:01:57.160 And that was, uh, it was quite the transition because You think 00:01:57.160 --> 00:02:00.460 you know what sales does until you're actually in the seat. 00:02:00.910 --> 00:02:04.300 And then I realized why they were annoyed with me at times when I was a 00:02:04.300 --> 00:02:08.050 marketer and you know, sending leads over the fence that were amazing and 00:02:08.060 --> 00:02:09.500 gold and why aren't you calling them? 00:02:10.079 --> 00:02:13.619 Uh, to being like in role and saying like, holy cow, marketing's 00:02:13.630 --> 00:02:15.479 throwing too many leads at us. 00:02:15.890 --> 00:02:18.939 I don't have the time and bandwidth for us to follow up on all these. 00:02:19.430 --> 00:02:21.180 Plus, actually, some of them are kind of crappy. 00:02:21.830 --> 00:02:24.160 So let's, uh, let's have a conversation about it. 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.610 And then, you know, my time at LinkedIn was phenomenal. 00:02:26.710 --> 00:02:31.530 Um, learned so much over eight years about how to be a really great sales 00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:35.309 leader, how to be a great leader overall, um, that, you know, created 00:02:35.310 --> 00:02:36.579 the opportunity for me to join G2. 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:38.429 Hey, everyone. 00:02:38.429 --> 00:02:39.290 It's just Mark here. 00:02:39.290 --> 00:02:40.830 I stopped the recording for a second. 00:02:41.190 --> 00:02:47.110 The point Mike just made there, it's rare to see a marketer who's sold before. 00:02:47.290 --> 00:02:48.030 That's rare. 00:02:48.049 --> 00:02:48.670 You don't see that a lot. 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:51.210 A lot of folks, for whatever reason, yeah, they like to go out 00:02:51.210 --> 00:02:52.660 and like maybe do a ride along. 00:02:52.780 --> 00:02:56.239 They like, sit on the floor for a bit, a day, a week, whatever. 00:02:56.559 --> 00:02:57.309 Wow! 00:02:57.490 --> 00:02:59.689 Mike went and carried a bag! 00:03:00.090 --> 00:03:06.440 Carried a quota for years and built a team and you know, I wish more 00:03:06.690 --> 00:03:08.810 of us would do that on both sides. 00:03:08.810 --> 00:03:11.359 I mean, notice some of the things that he highlighted in terms of like, I 00:03:11.359 --> 00:03:14.649 finally understood that we were throwing a lot of bogus leads over to sales. 00:03:15.269 --> 00:03:18.130 He is such a better CRO because of that. 00:03:18.669 --> 00:03:22.489 And I want to also highlight that, you know, as we progress forward 00:03:22.489 --> 00:03:26.750 and talk about, you know, one of the biggest impacts he's had is 00:03:27.170 --> 00:03:28.730 on sales and market alignment. 00:03:28.730 --> 00:03:30.450 And of course. 00:03:31.029 --> 00:03:34.050 If you, as a CEO, as a founder, you're looking across and like, we 00:03:34.050 --> 00:03:35.680 need to align these organizations. 00:03:36.130 --> 00:03:40.540 Who better to hire than someone who sat on both sides? 00:03:41.589 --> 00:03:42.640 All right, let's get back to Mike. 00:03:43.839 --> 00:03:48.269 So you know, you've been in this seat for almost three years now at G2. 00:03:48.640 --> 00:03:54.140 Looking back, what is the most impactful kind of execution 00:03:54.269 --> 00:03:55.950 piece that you're most proud of? 00:03:56.305 --> 00:04:01.455 Yeah, I think at the end of the day, the thing I'm truly most proud of is 00:04:01.455 --> 00:04:05.654 the sales and marketing alignment that we've created in our go to market motion. 00:04:06.465 --> 00:04:10.595 We plan, we execute, we track, and we optimize together. 00:04:11.004 --> 00:04:13.784 At the start of it, you know, coming into G2, I was just 00:04:13.784 --> 00:04:15.454 astounded at the opportunity. 00:04:15.984 --> 00:04:20.354 In the 2020 time frame when I joined, you know, we had AEs that were sourcing 00:04:20.354 --> 00:04:26.535 north of 60% Of their pipeline, like they literally were, you know, one people 00:04:26.535 --> 00:04:29.475 shows and that is definitely not great. 00:04:29.485 --> 00:04:32.764 That leads to like, I'm gonna have to have a fleet of a thousand AEs 00:04:32.775 --> 00:04:36.645 out there calling customers nonstop and spraying and praying, hoping. 00:04:37.304 --> 00:04:41.075 And you know, we had 20 percent and 20 percent for BDR and marketing 00:04:41.084 --> 00:04:43.015 contribution roughly at the time. 00:04:44.244 --> 00:04:47.944 Today, walking into this year, we're now looking at a world where. 00:04:48.625 --> 00:04:53.235 The marketing and BDR partnership is going to source over 65 00:04:53.265 --> 00:04:55.445 percent of our AE pipeline. 00:04:56.765 --> 00:05:02.115 And so we've, in a couple of years, we've flipped the whole script on where 00:05:02.165 --> 00:05:06.424 pipeline where opportunity and how deeply qualify those opportunities are. 00:05:07.155 --> 00:05:12.905 From an AE centric model to AEs being like empowered to really do what they do 00:05:12.944 --> 00:05:17.684 well, like represent G2, show the value, help people understand what the best 00:05:17.684 --> 00:05:23.185 starting point in the relationship as a customer with us is getting a ton of the 00:05:23.185 --> 00:05:25.215 demand coming from marketing and sales. 00:05:25.265 --> 00:05:26.865 And so that's, that's been huge. 00:05:27.075 --> 00:05:29.587 And likewise, our customers are happier, right? 00:05:29.587 --> 00:05:32.635 They're actually getting their needs met faster. 00:05:33.195 --> 00:05:34.924 We're going from a world where. 00:05:35.345 --> 00:05:41.615 We had a week lag time to get back to MQLs to now in most instances 00:05:41.615 --> 00:05:42.925 for highly qualified MQLs. 00:05:43.465 --> 00:05:47.565 It's within the same business day that we're getting back to you, you know, we're 00:05:47.565 --> 00:05:53.005 at under 10 minutes on average to engage with somebody in chat today, and we're 00:05:53.014 --> 00:05:58.205 on our way to being sub three minutes very soon and trying to get as real time 00:05:58.635 --> 00:06:03.159 and using automation as possible because we're seeing our conversion rates to you. 00:06:03.390 --> 00:06:10.070 A meeting to an opportunity skyrocketing based on how quickly and effectively we're 00:06:10.070 --> 00:06:11.850 engaging with folks showing interest. 00:06:12.309 --> 00:06:12.579 That's 00:06:12.580 --> 00:06:12.830 a 00:06:13.059 --> 00:06:14.660 amazing story. 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:15.830 We have to unpack that. 00:06:16.030 --> 00:06:18.460 Let's frame the opportunity first. 00:06:18.479 --> 00:06:22.570 I thought it was interesting that you walked in and you're like, okay, 60 00:06:22.570 --> 00:06:28.819 percent of our pipeline and our deals are self sourced by the AE, 20 percent by the 00:06:28.819 --> 00:06:31.090 BDRs, 20 percent generated by marketing. 00:06:32.039 --> 00:06:34.370 How did you know there was, that was not right? 00:06:34.580 --> 00:06:37.769 Is there, is there just a particular percentage you're targeting? 00:06:37.770 --> 00:06:38.999 Does it depend on context? 00:06:39.009 --> 00:06:39.979 Can you talk about that? 00:06:40.149 --> 00:06:40.639 Yeah. 00:06:40.899 --> 00:06:46.310 To me, the foundational part was rooted in the economics of the 00:06:46.310 --> 00:06:51.299 business and helping our talent do what they are intended to do. 00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:51.374 Okay. 00:06:52.095 --> 00:06:57.475 And on both of those measures, 60 plus percent felt way off because the economics 00:06:57.475 --> 00:07:03.575 of it said, Hey, the, the highest price resource in this group is going to be the 00:07:03.615 --> 00:07:07.235 only way that I continue to help expand. 00:07:07.650 --> 00:07:09.280 Our customer base over time. 00:07:10.110 --> 00:07:14.130 And so just the pure economics of like, geez, I look at how much budget we have 00:07:14.380 --> 00:07:15.790 planned for the next couple of years. 00:07:15.790 --> 00:07:18.800 Like all I'm going to be doing, we're not going to be able 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:20.170 to invest in product enough. 00:07:20.170 --> 00:07:22.120 We're not going to be able to invest in our brand enough. 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:24.200 We're not going to be able to invest in our customers. 00:07:24.505 --> 00:07:30.354 Enough if all I can do with any new incremental dollar is just hire more AEs. 00:07:31.014 --> 00:07:35.954 So the economics became very obvious of like, I need to help them be 00:07:35.954 --> 00:07:38.764 more efficient and be focused. 00:07:39.205 --> 00:07:42.484 Because at the same time, AEs, you know, you're going to burn out if 00:07:42.485 --> 00:07:47.134 you're just non stop pounding the phones trying to find somebody that's 00:07:47.145 --> 00:07:48.715 willing to have a conversation. 00:07:49.064 --> 00:07:53.624 Wants to get a demo and then eventually becomes pipeline that you then 00:07:53.635 --> 00:07:57.465 try to get to closing to hit your targets and, you know, be happy. 00:07:57.564 --> 00:08:02.984 Um, so it's like, how do I help them get farther into that process? 00:08:03.704 --> 00:08:07.954 How do I help them be more efficient and really focus on what they want to do, 00:08:07.964 --> 00:08:12.475 which is, I want to really engage with prospective customers to show them the 00:08:12.475 --> 00:08:17.475 value of G2, to answer their questions, to position what they can invest in 00:08:17.475 --> 00:08:19.125 and the type of return they can get. 00:08:20.445 --> 00:08:23.765 What he just said there, I just want to like abstract that out because 00:08:23.765 --> 00:08:25.805 I find that to be so critical. 00:08:26.094 --> 00:08:31.865 He's talking about measuring the efficiency of these different 00:08:31.875 --> 00:08:34.034 channels in this case, right? 00:08:34.034 --> 00:08:34.735 He's talking about. 00:08:34.930 --> 00:08:40.669 He's talking about AESourceDemand, he's talking about BDRSourceDemand, and he's 00:08:40.669 --> 00:08:42.690 talking about MarketingSourceDemand. 00:08:42.690 --> 00:08:47.860 And in most cases, we see the MarketingSourceDemand most efficient. 00:08:48.069 --> 00:08:50.700 Uh, he didn't talk about that here, I'm not sure if he can, but 00:08:50.950 --> 00:08:52.919 I would guess that's what he has. 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:55.830 However, it's, uh, It's the most difficult to scale potentially. 00:08:56.350 --> 00:09:00.330 Like we can conceptualize doubling the size of the SDR team and hopefully 00:09:00.330 --> 00:09:03.040 maintain their appointment volume. 00:09:03.670 --> 00:09:08.120 It's much harder to double the size of the marketing budget and double the 00:09:08.269 --> 00:09:10.040 number of leads of the same quality. 00:09:10.099 --> 00:09:11.430 It's almost next to impossible. 00:09:11.755 --> 00:09:18.305 But, to capstone his point here is, it's so important for us to take a stab at 00:09:18.365 --> 00:09:23.625 measuring the unit economics, let's just say payback period, by each channel. 00:09:24.035 --> 00:09:29.435 What is the unit economics of AE sourced pipeline, of marketing sourced 00:09:29.485 --> 00:09:31.355 pipeline, of SDR sourced pipeline? 00:09:32.035 --> 00:09:37.135 And, as we look ahead to a quarter or a year in planning and investment. 00:09:38.045 --> 00:09:43.085 We can pretty accurately project how those dollars are going to yield 00:09:43.105 --> 00:09:46.325 revenue based on that analysis, right? 00:09:46.345 --> 00:09:47.125 Let's get back to Mike. 00:09:48.454 --> 00:09:53.375 So economics definitely weren't going to work and then talent wise 00:09:53.734 --> 00:09:55.684 they were also getting frustrated. 00:09:55.685 --> 00:09:59.264 They were getting, you know, annoyed with having to do stuff. 00:09:59.264 --> 00:10:01.985 They're like, hey, I've been doing this for Years now, I 00:10:02.025 --> 00:10:03.755 want to, I want to go deeper. 00:10:03.755 --> 00:10:04.985 I want to build more relationships. 00:10:04.985 --> 00:10:06.205 I want to learn new things. 00:10:06.625 --> 00:10:11.115 But if you're sourcing that much pipeline, you don't have time to do those other 00:10:11.155 --> 00:10:12.794 more strategic things that you could be. 00:10:13.564 --> 00:10:15.905 And so I think both of those things played into the decision 00:10:15.905 --> 00:10:17.505 that it was like, very obvious. 00:10:18.225 --> 00:10:20.675 We have to evolve how we go to market and we need help. 00:10:20.984 --> 00:10:21.774 Let's talk about the 00:10:21.774 --> 00:10:24.154 economics though, Mike, just to challenge the point for a second. 00:10:24.194 --> 00:10:27.254 Cause you were doing, I don't know, maybe you weren't doing fine. 00:10:27.254 --> 00:10:32.014 It's just kind of like, here's a salesperson, 60 percent of the 00:10:32.014 --> 00:10:35.985 opportunities they source, 40 percent comes from BDRs and marketers. 00:10:36.295 --> 00:10:37.495 Did the math just not work? 00:10:38.225 --> 00:10:40.845 Cause I, I can just double that team and double that math. 00:10:40.845 --> 00:10:41.074 And. 00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:46.910 Yeah, so if you think about it from, from a, a, a private company, 00:10:47.209 --> 00:10:49.880 when we're talking with our board, they're saying, they're always 00:10:49.880 --> 00:10:51.449 saying, how could you go faster? 00:10:51.780 --> 00:10:53.100 How could you grow more? 00:10:53.439 --> 00:10:56.739 So even when it's successful, it's like, Oh, geez, there's so much opportunity. 00:10:57.620 --> 00:11:01.470 If you were more efficient, you could get 20 percent more than the 00:11:01.470 --> 00:11:02.860 great stuff you're already doing. 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:06.410 But eventually the dollars run out because you just keep 00:11:06.420 --> 00:11:08.660 going more and more into debt. 00:11:08.680 --> 00:11:09.540 You get into, you. 00:11:10.370 --> 00:11:15.080 Deeper negative cash flow and you know, you got to keep your ratios balance. 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:19.020 And so that's where we looked at it and said, okay, let me let me understand 00:11:19.030 --> 00:11:24.370 one talent aside where we know this is the right thing to help keep amazing 00:11:24.370 --> 00:11:26.350 people and recruit amazing people. 00:11:26.510 --> 00:11:30.930 If I can look at this and say, I actually can get, you know, four and a half 00:11:30.950 --> 00:11:36.560 dollars back per dollar I invest in revenue marketing, whereas I'm getting 00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:42.430 two and a half dollars back per every dollar I invest in incremental AE that is 00:11:42.430 --> 00:11:44.950 sourcing all of their pipeline themselves. 00:11:46.040 --> 00:11:50.345 Then I can start changing the equation and say, Hey, actually, I can go from a 00:11:50.345 --> 00:11:58.544 world where my AEs are closing 20 deals a year, I can actually get them to 30, 00:11:58.544 --> 00:12:04.594 35, 40 deals a year, because they're not sourcing all their pipeline, and 00:12:04.595 --> 00:12:09.190 I can basically spend the same amount And deliver a better business outcome. 00:12:10.589 --> 00:12:12.939 And at that point, when I started looking at the blended average, I 00:12:12.939 --> 00:12:16.360 was like, Alright, I'm, I'm now not getting two and a half dollar return. 00:12:16.930 --> 00:12:19.329 At a blended average, I'm getting, you know, more like a 00:12:19.370 --> 00:12:21.170 three and a half dollar return. 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:25.769 That even bolsters the case more to part of your point. 00:12:26.040 --> 00:12:28.459 To go to the board and say, Hey, I've increased the 00:12:28.459 --> 00:12:30.860 efficiency of my dollar return. 00:12:31.210 --> 00:12:33.830 I just need a couple more dollars and we can go faster. 00:12:34.300 --> 00:12:36.849 Because we have so much white space. 00:12:40.819 --> 00:12:44.700 Talking Too Loud, hosted by Chris Savage, is brought to you by the 00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:49.369 HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. 00:12:50.250 --> 00:12:55.379 On this podcast, Chris Savage, Wistia CEO and Loudest Talker, takes you 00:12:55.379 --> 00:12:59.360 inside the minds of entrepreneurs as they share the hilarious, 00:12:59.470 --> 00:13:04.100 informative, and most challenging aspects of building more human brands. 00:13:04.905 --> 00:13:08.375 You can hear episodes like Building a Reusable Notebook Empire with 00:13:08.375 --> 00:13:13.605 entrepreneur Joe LeMay or The AI Video Revolution with Wistia's own 00:13:13.615 --> 00:13:15.414 head of production, Chris Levine. 00:13:16.015 --> 00:13:19.144 Listen to Talking 2 Loud wherever you get your podcasts. 00:13:23.520 --> 00:13:26.189 Okay, so let's talk tactics now. 00:13:26.780 --> 00:13:29.989 So looking back, what's Mike's tactical playbook 00:13:29.999 --> 00:13:31.140 of how you made this happen? 00:13:31.359 --> 00:13:31.709 Yeah. 00:13:31.890 --> 00:13:32.160 Yeah. 00:13:32.229 --> 00:13:35.140 In some of the conversations that, that we've had before, I think 00:13:35.400 --> 00:13:37.099 you got to start at the basics. 00:13:38.180 --> 00:13:39.700 It's like literally who you're trying to sell to. 00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:43.720 And the common definition there is like, what's the ICP? 00:13:44.530 --> 00:13:46.370 Who is your ideal customer profile? 00:13:47.464 --> 00:13:50.795 And that is the starting point for us, right? 00:13:50.795 --> 00:13:54.344 If you're thinking about what's good, what's bad in an ICP. 00:13:55.435 --> 00:14:00.534 Bad is for us to, you know, say like, Hey, software companies 00:14:01.404 --> 00:14:03.854 and marketing, that's our ICP. 00:14:04.724 --> 00:14:08.134 Uh, I think everybody's going to get to different assumptions when they 00:14:08.135 --> 00:14:11.034 get to execution about, Okay, great. 00:14:11.564 --> 00:14:14.475 We have over 95, 000 companies that fall into software. 00:14:15.115 --> 00:14:19.145 Where do we start marketing's really big, especially as you get an enterprise. 00:14:19.765 --> 00:14:23.474 So it's much better is where we evolved to saying, Hey, what are the 00:14:23.474 --> 00:14:28.365 specific categories within software that we are prioritizing first? 00:14:29.225 --> 00:14:33.845 Through, you know, based on our taxonomy, we have over 2100 categories. 00:14:33.845 --> 00:14:34.415 We track. 00:14:34.695 --> 00:14:40.135 So like what's category one through category 2100 in where we 00:14:40.135 --> 00:14:43.914 should focus our time and energy because we can create great value. 00:14:44.535 --> 00:14:49.895 Now let's unpack it and understand at a package level of what we can sell. 00:14:50.564 --> 00:14:52.615 And what we can support customers with. 00:14:53.305 --> 00:14:57.785 Now let's connect the dots, not from like marketing to saying, okay, for 00:14:57.785 --> 00:15:03.014 essential, which is about building your presence on G2, generating your review 00:15:03.014 --> 00:15:05.944 base, creating social proof for yourself. 00:15:05.944 --> 00:15:07.615 Like that's the customer marketing. 00:15:07.829 --> 00:15:11.209 That's product marketing, who really cares a ton about that. 00:15:11.569 --> 00:15:14.840 And so we took it a layer deeper and said, it's not just marketing. 00:15:15.739 --> 00:15:17.249 It's for essential. 00:15:17.510 --> 00:15:21.849 We need to really hone our story and show value for customer 00:15:21.849 --> 00:15:23.469 marketers and product marketers. 00:15:24.520 --> 00:15:27.505 For buyer intent, It's demand gen marketers. 00:15:28.425 --> 00:15:29.675 It's media buyers. 00:15:29.865 --> 00:15:34.195 It's the folks that are activating campaigns to generate, you know, 00:15:34.195 --> 00:15:37.035 leads and signals for their business. 00:15:38.135 --> 00:15:43.125 I kind of feel like where this issue comes from is it actually starts with 00:15:43.125 --> 00:15:47.345 the sentiment of the investors, which translates to the sentiment of the 00:15:47.345 --> 00:15:52.895 founders, because a lot of us listening are part of venture backed companies. 00:15:53.575 --> 00:15:58.915 We are trying to pursue venture oriented returns, billion dollar companies. 00:15:59.535 --> 00:16:02.805 We have to prove to folks that we have a billion dollar market. 00:16:03.835 --> 00:16:08.024 But that doesn't mean that we have to prove that this quarter or this year. 00:16:09.154 --> 00:16:13.454 Too many of our companies are trying to blow the ocean. 00:16:14.125 --> 00:16:18.944 And really what we want to think about is not how do we make this 00:16:18.944 --> 00:16:21.465 year's number by selling to everybody. 00:16:21.900 --> 00:16:27.730 But instead, what is the easiest path to get from 10 million to 20 or 20 to 00:16:27.730 --> 00:16:32.880 40 this year based on the market and the value props that we've come up with? 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:38.660 I think Mike's done a just a phenomenal job of showing us and paving the way on 00:16:38.660 --> 00:16:41.670 how we can be more specific at de risking. 00:16:42.165 --> 00:16:44.005 The ICP here I let's get back 00:16:44.005 --> 00:16:44.495 and hear more from 00:16:44.495 --> 00:16:44.715 Mike 00:16:46.035 --> 00:16:52.475 so getting to that you know deeper level of planning helped us align and make 00:16:52.475 --> 00:16:55.945 sure that our tactical plans when it came to your marketing who you gonna 00:16:55.945 --> 00:17:01.765 target with what messages when that we have the alignment versus just like a. 00:17:02.194 --> 00:17:04.815 Hey, target software companies and anybody in marketing is fine. 00:17:05.065 --> 00:17:06.125 How'd you do that? 00:17:06.125 --> 00:17:06.925 I mean, if we're sitting 00:17:06.925 --> 00:17:09.605 here on listening and it's like, okay, yeah, I get it. 00:17:09.645 --> 00:17:16.274 Like we're probably a little too broad and saying that we sell to HR in us based, 00:17:16.345 --> 00:17:18.004 you know, finance companies, whatever. 00:17:18.144 --> 00:17:20.135 We should get a little more specific. 00:17:20.605 --> 00:17:21.655 How'd y'all make that decision? 00:17:21.655 --> 00:17:24.974 Was it just like, hey, product, go in a room and tell us the answer? 00:17:25.214 --> 00:17:25.954 Not too far. 00:17:25.964 --> 00:17:26.245 Okay. 00:17:26.635 --> 00:17:27.915 Actually, not too far from that. 00:17:28.165 --> 00:17:30.685 But like, it's got to be deeper than that. 00:17:30.715 --> 00:17:36.805 So can you speak to how, once we make this decision, how do you architect it and hold 00:17:36.805 --> 00:17:41.275 the frontline accountable to reinforce 00:17:41.275 --> 00:17:42.135 the strategy there? 00:17:42.485 --> 00:17:42.845 Yeah. 00:17:43.115 --> 00:17:48.155 One of the things is just continuing the discussion based on What's the 00:17:48.155 --> 00:17:52.255 closed one and closed loss data that you have when you look at and when 00:17:52.255 --> 00:17:56.724 you talk to the individuals that help close those opportunities, you know, 00:17:56.795 --> 00:18:00.684 we're starting to see like, oh, wow, like this is a whole different title. 00:18:01.245 --> 00:18:01.395 Right? 00:18:01.415 --> 00:18:04.995 Like, you know, hypothetically, it's like, oh man, the social media team is getting 00:18:04.995 --> 00:18:09.325 really involved all of a sudden with the G2 stuff is showing a lot more interest. 00:18:09.335 --> 00:18:13.804 They, they want to be a part of building their brand on G2. 00:18:13.814 --> 00:18:17.764 So they're now starting to show up a ton in buying the essential package, 00:18:18.054 --> 00:18:21.654 in managing profile, in managing the activation of some of that data. 00:18:21.654 --> 00:18:26.645 It's like, so really having that ongoing conversation about what are you winning? 00:18:26.695 --> 00:18:28.045 What are you losing and why? 00:18:28.045 --> 00:18:28.075 Okay. 00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:32.870 Gets us insights of how is the persona evolving, but it also gives 00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:38.340 my team great coaching feedback where we're seeing, Oh, we, we closed, 00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:40.980 lost a buyer intent opportunity. 00:18:41.370 --> 00:18:43.640 Then you dig into it and you're like, wait, you were 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:45.690 talking to a customer marketer. 00:18:46.419 --> 00:18:50.879 Like why does the customer marketer care about buyer intent? 00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:53.760 Are they actually running media campaigns? 00:18:54.130 --> 00:18:57.640 Are they running any outreach programs, like email, other things? 00:18:58.120 --> 00:19:01.330 It's like, oh, no, they're, they're more about, you know, presence, competitive 00:19:01.330 --> 00:19:02.800 intelligence, things of that nature. 00:19:02.800 --> 00:19:05.769 It's like, well, then buyer intent's really not the right fit for them. 00:19:05.990 --> 00:19:11.070 Like, we should be talking about their presence on G2, their review base on G2. 00:19:11.489 --> 00:19:15.139 And so, some of this becomes coaching where it's like, hey, you, you 00:19:15.139 --> 00:19:19.339 actually weren't talking to the right persona for that specific package. 00:19:19.770 --> 00:19:23.659 And we go back, find the right contacts, have the right conversations. 00:19:24.255 --> 00:19:28.965 In many instances, it can revive a lost deal because we just weren't talking 00:19:28.965 --> 00:19:32.884 to the right people and in some cases it helps us just keep evolving our 00:19:32.884 --> 00:19:36.685 definition of who we should be caring about and the type of messaging and 00:19:36.685 --> 00:19:38.064 value we need to be showing to them. 00:19:38.584 --> 00:19:41.884 You're operating on a level that we don't see that often. 00:19:41.885 --> 00:19:45.290 I'm sure there's a lot of listeners who's like, Dude, I barely 00:19:45.290 --> 00:19:47.430 have accurate close loss data. 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:52.480 Like, nevermind the fact that like, why the loss occurred, you know? 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.370 Cause salespeople, if you know, I see a lot of people have the 00:19:55.370 --> 00:19:57.229 salesperson put the close loss reason. 00:19:57.850 --> 00:20:01.899 And the salesperson is never going to put, because I messed up the sale, they're 00:20:01.899 --> 00:20:07.010 going to put like, because of budget or our product sucks or like, you know, and 00:20:07.010 --> 00:20:13.179 you're up in a level of like, you knew that the social media, like director is 00:20:13.179 --> 00:20:15.309 showing up more in the buying process. 00:20:15.340 --> 00:20:21.170 You knew that on this close loss, this was a buyer intent purchase, and yet 00:20:21.170 --> 00:20:23.230 they sold to the right, wrong person. 00:20:23.300 --> 00:20:26.679 Yeah. 00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:29.330 And I think that's where it's important to kind of connect the 00:20:29.330 --> 00:20:33.639 reality of things like we're not doing this on every single opportunity. 00:20:34.009 --> 00:20:38.349 And I, I do a planning rhythm with my leadership team that also becomes really 00:20:38.349 --> 00:20:41.480 helpful for me to understand what's, what's going on in the business day to 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:47.079 day is each segment presents every six months on what is our leadership plan. 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:50.529 You know, they're doing a combination of look back and 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:51.969 strategic plan for the future. 00:20:52.235 --> 00:20:53.345 So what have I learned? 00:20:53.345 --> 00:20:54.375 What was working? 00:20:54.385 --> 00:20:55.645 What wasn't working? 00:20:55.655 --> 00:20:59.985 What do we need to do differently going forward to create a different outcome? 00:21:00.575 --> 00:21:05.115 Whether it's, you know, to be able to hit our ARR target, to be able to improve our 00:21:05.354 --> 00:21:07.754 net retention or gross retention level. 00:21:08.425 --> 00:21:10.614 And they're looking at other things like, hey, how do I create 00:21:10.614 --> 00:21:12.119 more multi product customers? 00:21:13.030 --> 00:21:18.290 Those conversations, like setting up actual planning conversations that 00:21:18.310 --> 00:21:22.810 connect to these moments where they're like, we've been hearing from the team 00:21:23.139 --> 00:21:28.479 as we're doing our deal conversations with them, as we're reviewing the close 00:21:28.490 --> 00:21:30.020 loss notes that are coming through. 00:21:30.469 --> 00:21:35.330 We've uncovered these five key insights and we're going to share them, right? 00:21:35.330 --> 00:21:39.009 Share them with leadership, but we also open those leadership plans 00:21:39.009 --> 00:21:41.949 up to all cross functional teams. 00:21:42.750 --> 00:21:44.710 This isn't a RevOrg secret. 00:21:44.749 --> 00:21:48.509 This isn't a just the SMB team is sharing what's going well 00:21:48.510 --> 00:21:50.149 and what's going wrong in SMB. 00:21:50.525 --> 00:21:55.305 It used to stress me out so much as CRO to like, I just couldn't understand 00:21:55.305 --> 00:21:57.165 what was happening on that front line. 00:21:57.165 --> 00:21:59.015 And Mike, you've given us a great example. 00:21:59.145 --> 00:22:02.234 A lot of sales directors I know, I'm picturing someone who's like 00:22:02.235 --> 00:22:05.464 running four to six managers and each manager has like a six to eight rep, 00:22:05.464 --> 00:22:06.705 something like that, an org like that. 00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:10.840 They're just like running the army, you know what I mean? 00:22:10.840 --> 00:22:13.419 They're just like, someone else told me what the playbook is. 00:22:13.810 --> 00:22:16.090 Someone told me what the objection handling thing is. 00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:20.250 I'm really good at getting my managers to hire and enable and 00:22:20.250 --> 00:22:21.949 coach and motivate their reps. 00:22:21.949 --> 00:22:22.840 That's what I'm good at. 00:22:23.320 --> 00:22:28.090 And I struggle as a sales director with more of the strategic things. 00:22:28.130 --> 00:22:31.550 What you're asking them to do is highly strategic. 00:22:31.850 --> 00:22:33.139 Was that a big part of your selection 00:22:33.139 --> 00:22:34.250 process for these leaders? 00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:39.569 Yeah, but at the core of it, I do expect and try my best to help coach 00:22:39.569 --> 00:22:45.100 the team towards being a GM like strategic thinker that is not just 00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:49.450 focused on, you know, what is my amount of new logo revenue going to be? 00:22:49.459 --> 00:22:51.960 What's my amount of customer revenue going to be? 00:22:52.120 --> 00:22:54.720 But it's what is the, what is the overall experience? 00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:56.310 What does my overall go to market need to be? 00:22:56.709 --> 00:22:58.169 What role is marketing into play? 00:22:58.280 --> 00:23:00.189 What role is business development going to play? 00:23:00.530 --> 00:23:04.440 How are partnerships going to factor into this and support them 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:08.080 and create forums for them to share their thinking to get feedback like 00:23:08.090 --> 00:23:11.750 all the way up to our CEO sits in on every one of these leadership plans. 00:23:12.175 --> 00:23:16.005 And gives open feedback, gives ideas, jumps in the show, 00:23:16.285 --> 00:23:17.355 like, Hey, I'll support this. 00:23:17.355 --> 00:23:18.275 Like, let me help here. 00:23:18.645 --> 00:23:21.824 I think that's just a very confidence building motion. 00:23:22.254 --> 00:23:25.585 And honestly, people will surprise you when you give them 00:23:25.595 --> 00:23:28.344 the opportunity to think bigger. 00:23:29.695 --> 00:23:30.504 Just Mark here. 00:23:30.585 --> 00:23:31.764 I stopped the recording from Mike. 00:23:32.050 --> 00:23:37.939 I'm loving how much he's investing in his people, his sales directors, not 00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:42.620 specifically in the domain of sales, but specifically in the domain of leadership. 00:23:43.269 --> 00:23:46.570 It's not about like, how do you run a better forecast? 00:23:46.570 --> 00:23:49.620 And how do you coach someone to handle a budget objection? 00:23:49.850 --> 00:23:52.899 This is about how to think as a general manager. 00:23:53.300 --> 00:23:54.640 We don't do that enough. 00:23:54.650 --> 00:23:57.510 I don't see that amongst the mid level. 00:23:58.150 --> 00:24:03.370 Sales leadership across organizations and Mike's really making me think here 00:24:03.370 --> 00:24:08.630 that that's probably contributing to the bifurcation of cultures that we often 00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:14.350 see Mike's getting these people to think like GM's like many CEOs to appreciate 00:24:14.379 --> 00:24:16.439 all the other aspects of a business. 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:20.980 To think less about being a sales leader and more about being a company 00:24:20.990 --> 00:24:23.129 executive, an executive at our company. 00:24:23.610 --> 00:24:28.260 And so maybe we can really reflect on our own development of our people and 00:24:28.260 --> 00:24:30.050 our own selection of outside leaders. 00:24:30.649 --> 00:24:35.399 And how much of that is a broader appreciation of how they fit into 00:24:35.399 --> 00:24:39.110 the entire ecosystem and thinking from the company perspective. 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:41.960 All right, let's, let's hear more from Mike on that topic. 00:24:43.350 --> 00:24:46.380 The amount of new ideas that's come from the leadership team. 00:24:46.830 --> 00:24:50.680 It is astounding just merely because they, you know, I stopped asking 00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:56.139 them to be tactical pipeline managers and to really think about how to 00:24:56.139 --> 00:24:58.760 get their business where it needs to be in the next two to three years. 00:24:58.929 --> 00:25:00.689 How did you train them and able to do that? 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.089 I want my sales directors to think that way. 00:25:03.089 --> 00:25:04.069 How did, how did you do that? 00:25:04.570 --> 00:25:05.749 Putting budget behind it. 00:25:06.370 --> 00:25:11.159 I think that was the other part is, you know, we've invested in external 00:25:11.329 --> 00:25:13.560 educational opportunities, right? 00:25:13.560 --> 00:25:17.179 So whether it's, you know, the two or three day workshop type thing that. 00:25:17.570 --> 00:25:22.719 Yeah, you can get a local NBA program all the way to like our peak 00:25:22.719 --> 00:25:24.709 performers within our leadership team. 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:30.370 I prioritize an investment in pavilion to give them seats for 24 seven 00:25:30.370 --> 00:25:35.709 access to a great community of revenue organization leaders, like learn from 00:25:35.709 --> 00:25:39.669 others, learn from other ideas, bring new ideas back to us to keep us sharp. 00:25:40.419 --> 00:25:44.365 Um, and so me being a part of their development, me, Getting them introduced 00:25:44.365 --> 00:25:48.295 to other people and then formally getting them access to external 00:25:48.305 --> 00:25:53.225 curriculum and peers to learn from has really, from my vantage point, 00:25:53.235 --> 00:25:57.095 helped everybody reach their full potential that little leadership 00:25:57.245 --> 00:25:58.704 feels like it's so critical. 00:25:59.004 --> 00:26:02.624 To pull in off the sales and marketing and even product alignment culture. 00:26:02.824 --> 00:26:05.905 Let's dive into some really common sales and marketing 00:26:06.155 --> 00:26:08.345 potholes and how you've overcome. 00:26:08.345 --> 00:26:09.754 If you've seen them, Mike, I'm sure you have. 00:26:10.225 --> 00:26:11.844 So the first one is we missed the quarter. 00:26:12.504 --> 00:26:12.775 Yeah. 00:26:12.875 --> 00:26:16.584 But like, okay, you show up to one of these reviews and your segment sales 00:26:16.594 --> 00:26:19.264 leader says, here's why I'm missing. 00:26:19.465 --> 00:26:19.894 Yes. 00:26:19.914 --> 00:26:22.754 Marketing is hitting their MQL goals, but the quality of these 00:26:22.754 --> 00:26:24.884 MQLs has fallen off the cliff. 00:26:25.145 --> 00:26:25.435 Yeah. 00:26:25.485 --> 00:26:27.395 And the marketing person is sitting there being like. 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:30.560 They're not look at the last three sales hires. 00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:32.080 This person made they're terrible. 00:26:33.510 --> 00:26:39.280 The finger pointing is something that we typically Mitigate very quickly 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:43.159 And this is just part of like our our philosophy and training that we 00:26:43.159 --> 00:26:46.409 get across our leadership team around being conscious leaders It's like hey, 00:26:46.410 --> 00:26:50.305 just assume people are coming to you with the intent of a positive outcome. 00:26:51.115 --> 00:26:56.205 You may hear very authentic, tough feedback, but as a conscious 00:26:56.205 --> 00:26:59.455 leader, you got to think about what of this am I willing to accept? 00:26:59.715 --> 00:27:01.975 And what about this could be true? 00:27:02.625 --> 00:27:05.224 But mainly it's not finger pointing in the moment. 00:27:05.495 --> 00:27:10.418 It's that like just erosion that happens by withholding, right? 00:27:10.418 --> 00:27:14.855 If, if marketing's and marketing silo saying it's all sales is fault. 00:27:15.254 --> 00:27:16.385 They're blaming us. 00:27:16.455 --> 00:27:17.155 This is B. 00:27:17.155 --> 00:27:17.725 S. 00:27:18.445 --> 00:27:22.245 If that's where it lives and we don't know that's going on, then 00:27:22.245 --> 00:27:23.855 that's the toxicity that comes up. 00:27:24.225 --> 00:27:28.015 That's the stuff I, I believe culturally and from a leadership perspective, we are, 00:27:28.265 --> 00:27:31.304 we have successfully knocked down that wall and it's like, great, we're gonna 00:27:31.305 --> 00:27:35.770 have a conversation like you're gonna come to us and say, You guys are not following 00:27:35.770 --> 00:27:37.940 up on the amazing leads we're providing. 00:27:38.110 --> 00:27:39.010 What's going on? 00:27:39.610 --> 00:27:41.540 That's really the important first step. 00:27:42.330 --> 00:27:46.960 Then we get into a place of constructive debate, which is like, yeah, you may 00:27:46.970 --> 00:27:48.789 think that, but have you actually called? 00:27:49.050 --> 00:27:50.249 Have you listened to any of the calls? 00:27:50.329 --> 00:27:52.810 Let me send you some snippets of these A leads that you're sending over. 00:27:52.819 --> 00:27:54.570 Like, you know, I was withholding. 00:27:54.570 --> 00:27:56.899 I wasn't sharing with you that these leads are not great. 00:27:56.909 --> 00:27:58.580 This source doesn't appear to be working. 00:27:58.580 --> 00:28:03.290 This doesn't Seem to convert for us kind of once that negative sentiment 00:28:03.290 --> 00:28:08.220 comes up like you gotta make it out of the open and like close that loop. 00:28:08.890 --> 00:28:13.359 We've talked about it as this again, a LinkedIn principle that I was taught was 00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:17.169 like, just make it a clean escalation like you think there's a problem. 00:28:17.169 --> 00:28:19.399 Don't talk behind people's backs about it. 00:28:19.699 --> 00:28:24.819 So clean escalation is, Hey, if marketing's telling me the CRO, your sales 00:28:24.819 --> 00:28:30.389 team is not doing a good job following up on leads like that's good for me to hear. 00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:35.480 It's better for us to have a conversation about what of this do they believe is 00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:42.230 true and for my sales leader and you to come to me and potentially like 00:28:42.230 --> 00:28:44.300 the VP of revenue marketing, the CMO. 00:28:44.605 --> 00:28:49.755 And let's talk through what's actually going wrong, what's actually working, and 00:28:49.755 --> 00:28:55.115 then we can both take our own ownership stakes in fixing it versus letting this 00:28:55.125 --> 00:28:57.024 just erode our relationship and you. 00:28:57.615 --> 00:29:01.475 You being mad at us or us being mad at you and never, never saying 00:29:01.475 --> 00:29:02.675 anything or do anything about it. 00:29:03.145 --> 00:29:06.395 So I want to just talk about attribution for a second too. 00:29:06.785 --> 00:29:12.524 This one's always a struggle on credit because you've got this like SDR 00:29:12.535 --> 00:29:16.855 who calls and calls and calls this account and then it shows up as an 00:29:17.255 --> 00:29:19.705 inbound lead and marketing gets credit. 00:29:19.725 --> 00:29:23.055 Or you got this like this account that's been nurtured with tons of 00:29:23.055 --> 00:29:25.705 emails and an SDR books and appointment. 00:29:25.705 --> 00:29:26.879 calls You just quoted me. 00:29:26.950 --> 00:29:31.650 You know, I think it was like 30 percent marketing generated revenue, 25 percent 00:29:31.650 --> 00:29:36.960 BDR generated revenue, and then 35 percent account executive sourced. 00:29:37.270 --> 00:29:40.319 In order to get to those numbers, we have to have a really strong attribution 00:29:40.330 --> 00:29:41.750 formula, but that's difficult. 00:29:42.139 --> 00:29:43.570 Yeah, it can be. 00:29:43.729 --> 00:29:48.740 And we honestly did have that, that moment over the last, you know, year where 00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:54.720 it's the team came and said, Hey, we got to get out of this credit game, right? 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:55.889 It's like, Oh, I should get credit for this. 00:29:55.889 --> 00:29:56.740 I should get credit for that. 00:29:57.080 --> 00:29:59.560 Some of it started with really simple things. 00:30:00.340 --> 00:30:04.590 Hey, in your SPIFF program that you're running right now for your AEs, don't 00:30:04.590 --> 00:30:08.240 just reward them for AE sourced pipeline. 00:30:08.879 --> 00:30:17.415 Make sure that their conversion of marketing And BDR influenced pipeline is 00:30:17.595 --> 00:30:22.185 equally as valuable because frankly, it is equally as valuable and from a long term 00:30:22.185 --> 00:30:23.884 strategy perspective, it's more valuable. 00:30:24.505 --> 00:30:27.585 And so there's like little things that like, how are you reinforcing 00:30:27.585 --> 00:30:30.924 the wrong side potentially without knowing it, right? 00:30:30.924 --> 00:30:33.165 Where it's like, Hey, I get you're trying to, you're trying to help 00:30:33.165 --> 00:30:34.424 your team get to their number. 00:30:34.810 --> 00:30:39.090 But like at the same time, you're emphasizing the thing that will 00:30:39.100 --> 00:30:43.630 stop them from partnering with the teams that will help them long term. 00:30:45.269 --> 00:30:46.350 That's such a hard one. 00:30:46.710 --> 00:30:50.939 But at the end of the day, like if marketing gets some account to like 00:30:50.939 --> 00:30:54.260 raise their hand, the last thing we want is a BDR to stop calling them. 00:30:54.840 --> 00:30:56.890 In fact, we want them to double down on calling them. 00:30:56.890 --> 00:30:58.090 There's something going on there. 00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:02.250 And Mike seemed to create a more team oriented viewpoint. 00:31:02.660 --> 00:31:04.399 I bet his buyers feel that too. 00:31:05.375 --> 00:31:08.465 You may have bought from an organization where they had a culture of credit 00:31:08.955 --> 00:31:11.455 and for some reason you're being sifted around to different people 00:31:11.745 --> 00:31:14.484 or that you can't do something because that it makes sense for you. 00:31:14.484 --> 00:31:18.474 But something about their way of credit or compensation disallows 00:31:18.485 --> 00:31:22.445 you and Mike's done a great job of having a team orientation around that. 00:31:23.495 --> 00:31:25.044 All right, let's see what else he has to say on that topic. 00:31:26.125 --> 00:31:30.580 So there's like, A little bit of that, but there's also just the tactical. 00:31:31.170 --> 00:31:33.720 I think this is where, you know, I'm a bit out of my depth because I have 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:38.240 amazing team and they said we have to get out of the culture of credit. 00:31:39.030 --> 00:31:44.330 We have to make this better and show how marketing flows to BDR 00:31:44.330 --> 00:31:46.574 success flows to AE success. 00:31:47.505 --> 00:31:51.305 I need to start seeing the relationship of these actions, not for me to say 00:31:51.305 --> 00:31:53.525 like, Hey, sales, congratulations. 00:31:53.555 --> 00:31:54.305 It's because of me. 00:31:54.305 --> 00:31:55.015 You made your number. 00:31:55.015 --> 00:31:58.145 It's like, I need to understand this relationship so that I can 00:31:58.145 --> 00:32:04.295 show the progression and how I'm influencing the pipeline generation. 00:32:04.844 --> 00:32:05.814 The key thing was. 00:32:06.235 --> 00:32:10.505 I don't want the outcome to be me getting credit and you getting less credit. 00:32:11.065 --> 00:32:12.285 It's like we're winning together. 00:32:12.655 --> 00:32:13.525 That's great. 00:32:13.965 --> 00:32:18.715 But it also allows us to focus on where in the funnel is our conversion 00:32:18.725 --> 00:32:22.604 dropping off and what are we going to do about it so that it does 00:32:22.605 --> 00:32:24.544 become, how do we optimize together? 00:32:24.544 --> 00:32:25.235 It's like, Hey, great. 00:32:25.544 --> 00:32:30.515 I'm, I'm generating more MQLs than I need to, but my sales 00:32:30.555 --> 00:32:33.135 acceptance rate is dropping off. 00:32:33.155 --> 00:32:34.045 What's going on here? 00:32:34.715 --> 00:32:35.165 Why? 00:32:36.195 --> 00:32:38.945 And so I think that's the next horizon of what. 00:32:39.260 --> 00:32:43.060 You know, I have a brilliant marketing operations leader who's partnering with, 00:32:43.110 --> 00:32:46.400 you know, the team to think like more holistically and say, all right, how do 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:55.000 I hand over better opportunities for the SDRs to qualify and hand over better demos 00:32:55.010 --> 00:33:01.730 to AEs and optimizing each part in that process, I believe is one of the things 00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:05.800 that keeps us from the culture of credit at the end of the day, we all have to hit 00:33:05.800 --> 00:33:09.690 this one number and if I can do a little bit more to help us get to that number, 00:33:11.210 --> 00:33:15.020 Now everybody does have to have a target at some level to keep folks accountable. 00:33:15.770 --> 00:33:19.699 And so we've had to, you know, tighten up some of our logic and see like, how 00:33:19.699 --> 00:33:24.840 do you do like an attribution with shared credit in some instances between teams? 00:33:25.120 --> 00:33:30.895 I'm sure everyone listening has benefited from G2 as either a buyer or a seller. 00:33:30.895 --> 00:33:33.360 I imagine almost everyone, both sides. 00:33:33.430 --> 00:33:38.230 And I think we're hearing a lot of the details that make that magic 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.900 in that marketplace grow, um, specifically in sales market alignment. 00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:42.210 So. 00:33:42.790 --> 00:33:45.920 Mike Weir, CRO of G2, we thank 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:47.430 you for dropping wisdom today. 00:33:47.860 --> 00:33:48.480 Thank you, Mark. 00:33:48.580 --> 00:33:49.790 Love the conversation. 00:33:50.070 --> 00:33:53.620 And if you haven't been a buyer on G2, please check us out. 00:33:54.109 --> 00:33:56.090 We will absolutely help you find the right software. 00:33:56.859 --> 00:33:57.410 Thanks Mike. 00:34:06.169 --> 00:34:09.000 Today's episode is written and produced by Matthew Brown. 00:34:09.299 --> 00:34:12.649 Big thanks to HubSpot for startups and to the HubSpot podcast 00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:14.290 network for keeping the audio on. 00:34:14.540 --> 00:34:16.120 Hey, also we're a new show. 00:34:16.250 --> 00:34:19.380 So if you like what you hear, or if you hate what you hear, leave 00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.880 us a rating and review over on your favorite podcast player. 00:34:21.890 --> 00:34:22.849 I love the feedback. 00:34:23.390 --> 00:34:25.010 Also check out stage two capital. 00:34:25.150 --> 00:34:31.319 We're the first VC firm running back by over 500 CROs, CMOs, CCOs. 00:34:31.319 --> 00:34:33.440 So if you're an entrepreneur looking to scale your business, 00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:34.900 check out stage two dot capital. 00:34:35.290 --> 00:34:35.680 All right. 00:34:35.770 --> 00:34:36.520 That's it for today. 00:34:36.740 --> 00:34:37.480 I'm Mark Roberge. 00:34:37.490 --> 00:34:38.080 See you next week.