WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:04.620 --> 00:00:06.130 Hey folks, Mark Roberge here. 00:00:06.130 --> 00:00:08.580 Welcome to the science of scaling podcast. 00:00:09.120 --> 00:00:13.280 On this podcast, we talk to the top sales leaders in tech to learn 00:00:13.280 --> 00:00:16.239 the science behind how they're scaling their revenue and sales. 00:00:16.909 --> 00:00:19.630 I'm so excited today to have Jay LeBeouf as our guest. 00:00:19.849 --> 00:00:22.129 Jay founded Descript sales team. 00:00:22.610 --> 00:00:25.680 Descript is at the forefront of AI technology. 00:00:26.110 --> 00:00:30.450 He's got a pretty eclectic background for ending up in the seat he's in right now. 00:00:30.915 --> 00:00:36.975 Electrical engineer student at Cornell, uh, worked in some of the media tech 00:00:36.985 --> 00:00:38.965 companies back in the day, like Avid. 00:00:39.435 --> 00:00:43.204 He's been lecturing over at Stanford university in an engineering 00:00:43.204 --> 00:00:44.995 department for over a decade. 00:00:45.504 --> 00:00:49.195 And here he is carrying his first quota, leading his first go to market team. 00:00:49.744 --> 00:00:54.185 So he's been at the forefront of thinking differently about using AI and 00:00:54.185 --> 00:00:56.695 go to market of cultivating champions. 00:00:57.209 --> 00:00:59.789 of developing a community led growth strategy. 00:01:00.440 --> 00:01:03.199 These are the new techniques we're going to dig into with Jay. 00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:04.259 Let's do it. 00:01:07.730 --> 00:01:11.570 So Descript is an app that allows you to edit audio and 00:01:11.570 --> 00:01:14.339 video as easily as editing text. 00:01:14.860 --> 00:01:18.030 And as collaboratively as we would use a Google doc. 00:01:18.330 --> 00:01:21.730 And one of the things we've pioneered is this text based editing. 00:01:21.809 --> 00:01:25.440 So you should be able to just select a word, a phrase, a paragraph 00:01:25.440 --> 00:01:28.509 you don't want, hit delete, and it edits the underlying audio. 00:01:28.905 --> 00:01:29.345 And video. 00:01:29.345 --> 00:01:32.195 And that's one of like many auto magical AI things that we do. 00:01:32.565 --> 00:01:34.824 So we've raised a hundred million dollars so far. 00:01:34.865 --> 00:01:40.134 We're a series C company funded by Andreessen Horowitz, Redpoint, Spark, 00:01:40.305 --> 00:01:42.564 and our series C was led by OpenAI. 00:01:43.015 --> 00:01:43.645 It's very cool. 00:01:43.664 --> 00:01:46.194 Let's get into your journey here. 00:01:46.255 --> 00:01:49.734 I don't believe you carried a sales quota before, you know, as 00:01:49.734 --> 00:01:52.595 I look at your background, you're electrical engineering at Cornell. 00:01:53.010 --> 00:01:53.810 You studied at Stanford. 00:01:53.810 --> 00:01:57.600 You've taught at Stanford for over a decade on more of the tech side. 00:01:57.870 --> 00:02:01.250 A lot of your roles have been on the R& D side of the fence. 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:03.109 Tell us about how you ended up here. 00:02:03.490 --> 00:02:07.489 I was a very unhappy electrical engineer, but I was doing a lot of 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:11.980 music on the side, playing in a band and in a lot of recording studios. 00:02:11.980 --> 00:02:15.890 And For me, the aha moment was discovering that you could actually 00:02:15.890 --> 00:02:18.690 blend music and technology. 00:02:18.750 --> 00:02:21.570 And so my, my initial goal was I'm going to go to Stanford. 00:02:21.570 --> 00:02:22.609 I'm going to go to grad school. 00:02:22.780 --> 00:02:26.689 I'm going to become more solid in my technical chops, but with my 00:02:26.750 --> 00:02:29.459 creative and musical background, I'll get out of company. 00:02:29.849 --> 00:02:33.339 I'll go in, make a huge impact, develop technology that 00:02:33.519 --> 00:02:34.749 supports creative professionals. 00:02:34.959 --> 00:02:38.070 And that was basically the first decade of my career was doing 00:02:38.070 --> 00:02:39.250 that on a more technical sense. 00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:43.410 And then the Kind of pivot towards becoming more of a business 00:02:43.410 --> 00:02:46.590 professional was leaving avid. 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:52.359 So avid is a company that does product called pro tools and avid media composer, 00:02:52.359 --> 00:02:56.190 and a lot of stuff that's used by the biggest recording and film studios. 00:02:56.569 --> 00:02:59.250 I left that company because I wanted to do my own startup. 00:02:59.540 --> 00:03:04.910 It was 2008, very early time to do an AI startup, but I did one also 00:03:04.910 --> 00:03:06.220 in the media and technology space. 00:03:06.350 --> 00:03:11.795 And it was in the process of that startup that I realized I There are 00:03:11.795 --> 00:03:15.475 far better people technically than I am and that the best thing I could 00:03:15.475 --> 00:03:19.475 do to serve the vision of the company is to act as a business leader. 00:03:19.734 --> 00:03:24.355 And that's also how I began my, my quest into sales because we were doing something 00:03:24.355 --> 00:03:26.564 that the world didn't know it needed. 00:03:26.574 --> 00:03:28.614 And I had to convince a lot of people otherwise. 00:03:29.204 --> 00:03:30.134 That's really cool. 00:03:30.414 --> 00:03:36.484 If I were to try to paint my perspective of the last 25 years 00:03:36.484 --> 00:03:40.284 of like sales evolution, maybe even longer in software, let's say, 00:03:40.394 --> 00:03:42.904 you know, prior to the internet. 00:03:43.730 --> 00:03:47.660 There's a lot of anecdotal narrative that the best sales team won. 00:03:48.220 --> 00:03:53.770 And then the internet and cloud gave way to what we refer to 00:03:53.770 --> 00:03:55.850 today as like product led growth. 00:03:56.079 --> 00:03:57.560 Maybe it was called self serve. 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:02.079 It was called like even application service provider way back in the day. 00:04:02.079 --> 00:04:05.560 But at the bottom line is like, you could literally just start using the product. 00:04:05.750 --> 00:04:11.240 And the narrative and Silicon Valley was like, Hey, best product wins. 00:04:11.260 --> 00:04:14.935 Now, And for a while there was like almost an allergy effect. 00:04:15.015 --> 00:04:19.375 And then I think sometime in like 2010 or something, someone like stuck in 00:04:19.375 --> 00:04:23.894 SDR against their PLG funnel and like things accelerated and we got into this 00:04:23.894 --> 00:04:26.854 little bit of a hybrid now it's like, how do you integrate these things? 00:04:27.434 --> 00:04:30.424 More of the traditional sales stuff of like discovery and 00:04:30.955 --> 00:04:32.405 personalization of the message. 00:04:32.875 --> 00:04:35.795 Do you think that stuff is not applicable here? 00:04:36.420 --> 00:04:37.810 Because something changed. 00:04:38.210 --> 00:04:41.510 Well, the keyword you did mention there, Mark, was discovery. 00:04:41.880 --> 00:04:46.900 And that's something that I think we can't ever get lazy at. 00:04:46.940 --> 00:04:48.270 I learn so much. 00:04:48.270 --> 00:04:51.200 My team learns so much every day. 00:04:51.230 --> 00:04:54.219 If we're willing to ask the questions, if we're willing to be constantly 00:04:54.220 --> 00:04:58.300 curious, if we're willing to ask somebody why, even though we think we know the 00:04:58.300 --> 00:05:00.690 answer, what's the harm in asking it? 00:05:01.140 --> 00:05:04.120 And We learned so much about how to describe the product, what 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.970 new competitors are, what other solutions they're looking at. 00:05:07.290 --> 00:05:09.690 And then importantly, what's the friction? 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.280 Like what's kept them from paying up until now? 00:05:12.280 --> 00:05:13.560 Why are they even talking to a human? 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:16.999 You know, ideally our product is set up that you can do everything you 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:19.319 need to do without talking to a human. 00:05:19.590 --> 00:05:21.900 If you're talking to us, we're almost a bug. 00:05:22.170 --> 00:05:23.280 So what's the bug? 00:05:23.289 --> 00:05:23.960 Why, why, why? 00:05:24.460 --> 00:05:25.110 We love you. 00:05:25.270 --> 00:05:26.270 Thanks for reaching out to us. 00:05:26.280 --> 00:05:28.140 We're gonna, we're gonna care for you. 00:05:28.590 --> 00:05:31.730 Give you everything you need, but why are you here? 00:05:32.110 --> 00:05:36.710 And then we can, oftentimes we can use that to make the help documentation 00:05:36.710 --> 00:05:38.789 better, make our pricing better. 00:05:38.960 --> 00:05:43.510 Um, it make our follow up emails, like have a few additional things 00:05:43.539 --> 00:05:48.800 because we actually do want to get you to like, get you to value, get 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:50.630 you to the sale a little bit faster. 00:05:50.830 --> 00:05:52.950 And if we can do that without either of us having to spend 00:05:52.950 --> 00:05:54.250 a half hour on zoom together. 00:05:54.260 --> 00:05:54.860 I mean, why not? 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:56.720 That stuck out to me. 00:05:57.155 --> 00:06:04.344 In our chat of like how quickly you went from, okay, we need to help the product 00:06:04.344 --> 00:06:08.314 engineering folks figure out our product market fit, like debug this thing, 00:06:08.314 --> 00:06:10.595 be the human loop, remove ourselves. 00:06:11.044 --> 00:06:16.275 And suddenly it seemed like your North star core revenue acceleration 00:06:16.275 --> 00:06:17.885 was the development of champions. 00:06:19.425 --> 00:06:20.675 Can you talk about that? 00:06:20.705 --> 00:06:22.125 Like, how did you pick that? 00:06:22.125 --> 00:06:23.025 What does that mean? 00:06:23.035 --> 00:06:23.565 How do you. 00:06:24.110 --> 00:06:25.209 How do you codify that? 00:06:25.599 --> 00:06:31.350 One of the things that we realized was working really well is one, we have 00:06:31.350 --> 00:06:37.350 a product that in about one minute, I can demo it to you and no matter what 00:06:37.350 --> 00:06:39.409 your role at the company, you will. 00:06:40.539 --> 00:06:42.900 Consider that what I just showed you is complete and total magic. 00:06:43.290 --> 00:06:47.020 So we could have a procurement person and I can show them how I can 00:06:47.080 --> 00:06:50.719 upload an audio file with all these background sounds and people talking 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.600 and dishes clanking in the background. 00:06:52.900 --> 00:06:55.170 With one button, it all disappears and you sound like you're on a 00:06:55.180 --> 00:06:56.690 broadcast quality microphone. 00:06:56.779 --> 00:06:59.689 I can show that to procurement person and they're like, wow, I'm just here 00:06:59.689 --> 00:07:01.050 to buy this thing, but that's cool. 00:07:02.020 --> 00:07:06.224 So with things like that, you realize that People would end 00:07:06.224 --> 00:07:08.555 the call and they're like, Jay, thank you so much for your time. 00:07:09.355 --> 00:07:10.485 Whoever they're talking to a descript. 00:07:10.515 --> 00:07:11.285 Thank you so much for your time. 00:07:11.415 --> 00:07:12.665 Let me know how else I can help. 00:07:13.405 --> 00:07:17.094 And what I always encourage, uh, especially when I'm, when I'm working 00:07:17.094 --> 00:07:20.625 with the university students, people will often tell them like, you know, 00:07:20.625 --> 00:07:21.685 let me know what else I can do to help. 00:07:21.685 --> 00:07:22.794 And I'm like, take them up on it. 00:07:23.185 --> 00:07:25.125 Every single time. 00:07:26.055 --> 00:07:27.685 This is really interesting. 00:07:27.695 --> 00:07:32.215 This is an opportunity everywhere in the go to market ecosystem. 00:07:32.945 --> 00:07:36.624 Jay is leaning into referrals. 00:07:38.075 --> 00:07:40.184 He's, he's talking about building champions. 00:07:40.404 --> 00:07:43.995 He's talking about like when someone says, Hey, that was, this was awesome. 00:07:44.235 --> 00:07:45.645 Let me know if I could ever help you. 00:07:46.685 --> 00:07:48.405 And he says, take advantage of that. 00:07:49.270 --> 00:07:53.190 I don't understand why we don't codify that into our sales methodology as much. 00:07:54.290 --> 00:07:59.770 I don't think I've ever come across a relatively mature sales organization that 00:07:59.770 --> 00:08:04.970 doesn't have a cold calling script, but it's really hard for me to think about. 00:08:05.520 --> 00:08:09.930 A mature sales organization that has a generate referral script. 00:08:11.260 --> 00:08:14.110 That's an opportunity and Jay's bringing that to life. 00:08:14.170 --> 00:08:14.840 Let's get back to him. 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:18.840 If you think there's some logical way that they can provide value and it's, 00:08:19.230 --> 00:08:22.820 and it's a pretty authentic ask that that customer or person could deliver. 00:08:23.640 --> 00:08:26.309 So now imagine that. 00:08:26.650 --> 00:08:30.290 The person comes in the door, we give them a great demo, they purchase the 00:08:30.290 --> 00:08:35.110 product, we continue to support them, check in on them every now and then, 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:36.730 provide them new training materials. 00:08:37.380 --> 00:08:43.800 The day comes, their account is now like 5, 10, 15 people at their company. 00:08:44.130 --> 00:08:49.260 Now, they still reach out to me, even though, you know, we've got a team 00:08:49.260 --> 00:08:51.770 in place that'll handle it, they'll still reach out to me, I want to 00:08:51.819 --> 00:08:56.120 maintain a relationship with them, but I realized they're so passionate. 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.380 They always will still ask, what else can I do for you? 00:08:58.880 --> 00:09:00.590 We wanted to tap into this. 00:09:00.810 --> 00:09:03.579 So we call those people champions internally. 00:09:04.010 --> 00:09:07.980 Often they're the first person from an organization that comes into the door. 00:09:08.380 --> 00:09:11.069 They feel like they're the ones in their company that have discovered Descript. 00:09:11.810 --> 00:09:16.590 They're the ones that have evangelized for us to, you know, get the, get the, get the 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.900 PO through, uh, set up the initial team. 00:09:19.689 --> 00:09:25.180 But then they also start acting as a, like a custodian for us 00:09:25.349 --> 00:09:26.569 in their, in their company. 00:09:27.100 --> 00:09:29.409 They handle the first wave of support requests. 00:09:29.940 --> 00:09:31.880 They introduce us to new teams. 00:09:33.845 --> 00:09:36.655 Are the people that I can reach out to when I'm going to a conference and I 00:09:36.655 --> 00:09:40.785 need to stack it with people on a panel or our PR team wants to talk to people 00:09:40.785 --> 00:09:43.885 in the learning and development space I reach out to those people and it's 00:09:43.944 --> 00:09:45.455 this wonderful relationship because. 00:09:46.069 --> 00:09:48.910 Now I'm elevating them because I'm bringing them onto a panel. 00:09:48.910 --> 00:09:53.900 I'm showing them as a thought leader for the risk that they took to use Descript. 00:09:54.589 --> 00:09:56.329 I'm struggling with this a little bit. 00:09:56.459 --> 00:10:01.539 Like Jay's using the word champion, obviously a word that has been 00:10:01.539 --> 00:10:03.720 used in sales for a long time. 00:10:04.689 --> 00:10:08.779 And it's usually in like enterprise selling where you want to have a very 00:10:08.779 --> 00:10:10.799 strong champion that can get a deal done. 00:10:11.939 --> 00:10:16.930 And there's a lot of practices out there, best practices out there 00:10:17.280 --> 00:10:20.260 on how to develop a champion and know if you have a strong champion. 00:10:21.229 --> 00:10:23.910 I don't know, he's talking about something different here 00:10:24.069 --> 00:10:26.070 and I'm trying to get at it. 00:10:26.550 --> 00:10:31.370 I just want to point that out and let you reflect on it a little bit too. 00:10:31.989 --> 00:10:36.329 Cause it might be a piece to how sales is changing and how 00:10:36.329 --> 00:10:37.199 our perception is changing. 00:10:37.640 --> 00:10:41.550 With our buyers and our power users and our champions is changing. 00:10:42.190 --> 00:10:44.800 So I think this is a really important comment by Jay. 00:10:44.910 --> 00:10:45.930 I just want to point that out. 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:51.040 And then the more we teach them about Descript and all the ways that we can 00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:54.899 make their audio and video more impactful, they're able to teach those skills to 00:10:54.899 --> 00:10:59.300 other people in their company, which makes them a more valuable employee, a better 00:10:59.300 --> 00:11:00.740 thought leader, a better communicator. 00:11:01.005 --> 00:11:05.124 So it's, it's this wonderful flywheel we're super early days. 00:11:05.165 --> 00:11:08.505 Like my community manager is listening to this right now being like, 00:11:08.515 --> 00:11:10.225 we're really just getting started. 00:11:10.235 --> 00:11:13.275 Don't overpromise, but we believe in it and we're going to invest in it. 00:11:13.624 --> 00:11:19.395 Can anyone be a champion at a company or do you have to teach your team like 00:11:19.395 --> 00:11:21.675 who would be a good champion versus not? 00:11:22.015 --> 00:11:25.814 Well, one of the, one of the key criteria in this, this could be 00:11:25.814 --> 00:11:29.864 obvious, but you want to make sure that they're happy first. 00:11:30.310 --> 00:11:34.140 That they have absolutely no equivocations with the product. 00:11:34.520 --> 00:11:38.490 Even if they have feedback or feature requests or bugs that they feel are 00:11:38.490 --> 00:11:42.120 longstanding, they feel genuinely heard. 00:11:42.530 --> 00:11:45.839 They know when we're going to get to those, or if we're never 00:11:45.839 --> 00:11:48.589 going to accommodate their feature requests, they know exactly why. 00:11:48.980 --> 00:11:50.569 So if they are happy. 00:11:51.374 --> 00:11:56.695 If they know that Descript listens to them, trust them, and you know, 00:11:56.695 --> 00:12:00.535 we value their feedback, I think it flows both ways because they feel that 00:12:00.535 --> 00:12:03.675 and there's almost a sense of like, well, what can I do for Descript? 00:12:03.895 --> 00:12:05.194 You guys have been so good to me. 00:12:05.935 --> 00:12:09.244 And at no part in this, Mark, or is anybody talking about like, Hey, you 00:12:09.244 --> 00:12:11.795 know, I, I give you guys 10, 000 a year. 00:12:11.795 --> 00:12:12.795 That's what I do for you. 00:12:12.984 --> 00:12:17.864 Like we, we just kind of go past that and we go back to the relationship piece, 00:12:18.365 --> 00:12:23.880 which is that like human to human thing that maybe sometimes we forget You know, 00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:28.110 Dscripts doesn't have an enterprise relationship with HubSpot, for example. 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:32.564 Dscripts enterprise relationship is with Drew, the head of 00:12:32.564 --> 00:12:34.104 user research at HubSpot. 00:12:34.475 --> 00:12:39.165 If Drew gets hit by a bus, we need to rebuild up new champions at the company 00:12:39.185 --> 00:12:45.174 because come contract renewal time, if the new person put in, put in charge, 00:12:45.265 --> 00:12:48.455 doesn't know about us or isn't happy with us, we're going to have a heck of a time. 00:12:48.784 --> 00:12:49.014 So 00:12:49.025 --> 00:12:50.824 it's make them happy. 00:12:51.165 --> 00:12:53.925 I'm kind of putting words in your mouth, but it's like, listen to 00:12:53.925 --> 00:12:56.005 them, listen to what they care about. 00:12:56.045 --> 00:12:58.824 And even if we don't have it, Make them feel heard. 00:12:59.244 --> 00:13:00.545 How do you check that they're happy? 00:13:00.785 --> 00:13:03.004 Are you just like send an MPS out? 00:13:03.004 --> 00:13:04.565 Or like, how do you know they're happy? 00:13:05.055 --> 00:13:08.964 We've got qualitative, we've got quantitative on the quantitative side. 00:13:09.035 --> 00:13:12.855 We use amplitude internally, so we actually can look at their team 00:13:12.885 --> 00:13:15.344 account, look at their product usage. 00:13:15.485 --> 00:13:19.594 That's a great indicator of, you know, Descripts and audio and video editing app. 00:13:19.795 --> 00:13:20.265 So. 00:13:20.645 --> 00:13:24.694 How frequently is this team actually publishing audio, publishing 00:13:24.694 --> 00:13:27.185 video, making edits last logged in? 00:13:27.464 --> 00:13:30.545 Uh, those are, those are ways that they're using the product. 00:13:30.585 --> 00:13:32.474 So things are, things are good and trending and they're 00:13:32.474 --> 00:13:33.464 getting good value from it. 00:13:34.224 --> 00:13:37.484 Uh, the other piece then is what we can determine from. 00:13:38.349 --> 00:13:39.859 Uh, our success calls. 00:13:40.680 --> 00:13:46.709 So one of the first pieces of wisdom given to me, uh, this was by, uh, Travis 00:13:46.709 --> 00:13:48.630 Bryant, who was at red point for a while. 00:13:48.630 --> 00:13:50.890 He was at optimizely before that at Salesforce. 00:13:50.930 --> 00:13:55.859 Before that Travis was like, dude, you gotta start recording your calls. 00:13:56.010 --> 00:13:57.279 I'm like, ah, it's kind of creepy. 00:13:57.409 --> 00:13:58.019 He's like, no, no, no. 00:13:58.569 --> 00:14:03.470 Get in the habit as soon as you can, because you have an opportunity to 00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:07.690 share your learnings in the voice of the customer at every opportunity. 00:14:08.829 --> 00:14:10.000 That's interesting. 00:14:10.539 --> 00:14:12.529 How do you know if your customer is happy? 00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:18.959 And I suggested MPS and he was like, okay, we use a quant approach, 00:14:20.199 --> 00:14:21.310 but then he didn't go to MPS. 00:14:21.319 --> 00:14:22.280 He went to amplitude. 00:14:23.410 --> 00:14:24.589 He went to usage data. 00:14:25.870 --> 00:14:26.949 I think that's very powerful. 00:14:28.130 --> 00:14:29.060 Like MPS is cool. 00:14:29.099 --> 00:14:31.280 MPS is an amazing, uh, innovation. 00:14:31.810 --> 00:14:32.270 And the last. 00:14:33.810 --> 00:14:36.260 And helps us see whether they're happy. 00:14:37.060 --> 00:14:42.040 And I've seen companies have great success using MPS to drive this, but 00:14:42.090 --> 00:14:46.419 MPS is a survey and there's reams of research that shows that surveys can 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:50.440 be mislead that people sometimes may be hesitant to share honest feedback 00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:54.760 in a survey, but when you're speaking with your clicks and your mouse and 00:14:54.760 --> 00:14:57.560 your usage, that's more powerful. 00:14:57.850 --> 00:14:58.250 I think. 00:14:59.010 --> 00:15:03.444 And it's, I just find it really interesting that Jay is, Trying to 00:15:03.444 --> 00:15:07.735 evaluate customer happiness first with the usage and identifying 00:15:07.735 --> 00:15:11.205 those champions and those Those power users, let's get back to Jake. 00:15:12.225 --> 00:15:16.655 And so we adopted grain, I think at the end of 2020, we've recorded every 00:15:16.655 --> 00:15:20.175 call since we now use that insight. 00:15:20.565 --> 00:15:24.985 We share on Slack every day when we hear something new, when we hear 00:15:24.985 --> 00:15:27.864 someone who's really unhappy, we share it in their own words to the 00:15:27.864 --> 00:15:29.675 product team or to the support team. 00:15:29.925 --> 00:15:32.845 And when we hear people that are really, really happy, we share it to 00:15:32.845 --> 00:15:34.775 our community team to say, this person. 00:15:35.205 --> 00:15:36.485 It's a candidate for champion. 00:15:36.595 --> 00:15:38.635 That call recording is so important. 00:15:38.725 --> 00:15:42.855 I need to ask you, okay, like 10 years from now is the sales team. 00:15:43.095 --> 00:15:47.904 Today's sales team is like the CRO who oversees four directors who each 00:15:47.904 --> 00:15:53.925 has five managers and each of them have, you know, eight reps each year. 00:15:54.035 --> 00:15:54.464 There's a bunch of SDRs. 00:15:55.185 --> 00:15:56.395 There's a sales ops team. 00:15:56.405 --> 00:15:57.205 There's whatever. 00:15:57.719 --> 00:16:03.639 Is that all replaced by, uh, a go to market data scientist 00:16:03.689 --> 00:16:05.489 that's just running the AI? 00:16:08.020 --> 00:16:10.250 Well, I, I don't know the answer to that. 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.529 Mark, I'm going to analogize it to something that I heard you say. 00:16:14.540 --> 00:16:17.389 I think it was on the, on the grit podcast of you're, you're telling the story of 00:16:18.260 --> 00:16:23.180 you got, you got job recs for 20 more, 20 more heads, and you approached your 00:16:23.180 --> 00:16:27.770 original sales team and basically said, I'm going to give the money to you guys. 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:29.140 I think you can do it. 00:16:29.329 --> 00:16:31.180 I think you can do more with what you have. 00:16:31.780 --> 00:16:32.250 So. 00:16:33.155 --> 00:16:38.755 Where I think we're at right now is we have a small team. 00:16:38.765 --> 00:16:40.515 There's three people. 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:42.510 On our sales and success team. 00:16:42.510 --> 00:16:45.970 I know it sounds extraordinary to everybody here. 00:16:45.970 --> 00:16:47.510 Like, well, that's so lavish. 00:16:47.710 --> 00:16:49.170 How do you spend that a hundred million dollars? 00:16:49.430 --> 00:16:51.410 I can assure you it's not on sales and success. 00:16:51.830 --> 00:16:56.520 We are trying to give the entrepreneur generalist sales and success team. 00:16:56.520 --> 00:16:59.099 We have access to whatever. 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.750 Tools and technology they need to be as empowered about what the customer needs 00:17:03.790 --> 00:17:07.590 to share insights and basically to act as a force multiplier for their skills. 00:17:08.890 --> 00:17:10.270 I didn't even remember that. 00:17:11.219 --> 00:17:16.409 That's actually a perfect place to bring in my commentary on the grip podcast. 00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:18.780 And now Jay's making me connect some dots here. 00:17:19.239 --> 00:17:22.640 He's helped me connect some dots and what he's referring to is this. 00:17:24.395 --> 00:17:28.645 How do you know what the quota of your salespeople should be? 00:17:30.155 --> 00:17:31.535 You're about to build a sales team. 00:17:32.975 --> 00:17:34.375 How do you come up with that? 00:17:35.865 --> 00:17:37.754 And I don't think the industry does that. 00:17:37.765 --> 00:17:44.335 Well, I think most people say, well, we're running an inside sales led growth motion. 00:17:44.345 --> 00:17:48.235 So of course we're going to pay our salespeople 140, 000 a year. 00:17:48.235 --> 00:17:51.504 And of course their quote is going to be 600, 000 a year. 00:17:51.524 --> 00:17:56.115 Cause that's what everyone else does, or we're running an enterprise sales motion. 00:17:56.115 --> 00:17:57.605 And of course we're going to pay our people. 00:17:57.945 --> 00:17:59.025 300, 000 a year. 00:17:59.025 --> 00:18:01.975 And of course their quarter is going to be a million dollars a year. 00:18:02.495 --> 00:18:04.915 But I think that's super suboptimal. 00:18:05.385 --> 00:18:09.615 And I think it's hard because like at the end of the day, your constraint 00:18:09.635 --> 00:18:14.045 is a 40 hour work week or whatever you want your reps to work and how 00:18:14.045 --> 00:18:16.424 they can make that most productive. 00:18:17.415 --> 00:18:20.105 But when you start out just like, yeah, we're running sales like growth, you 00:18:20.105 --> 00:18:23.015 know, 140, 000 a year, 600, 000 a quarter. 00:18:23.185 --> 00:18:25.665 You sort of like pinpoint yourself. 00:18:25.665 --> 00:18:27.725 You peg yourself to that expectation. 00:18:29.135 --> 00:18:30.665 But especially today. 00:18:31.030 --> 00:18:38.000 With AI and you're scaling up a team, you have an opportunity to say, I don't know, 00:18:38.340 --> 00:18:40.480 all I know is I have two reps, right? 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.650 I have three reps today. 00:18:42.129 --> 00:18:45.729 And over the last couple of months, they have averaged what's going 00:18:45.729 --> 00:18:48.050 to end up being 700, 000 of ARR. 00:18:49.089 --> 00:18:51.120 And I want to see how high they can get this. 00:18:51.179 --> 00:18:55.909 I want to challenge them to do more and I'm not going to raise their quota. 00:18:55.909 --> 00:18:58.500 I'm just going to put that money in their pocket when they do. 00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:01.389 So that's going to be a big opportunity for us. 00:19:01.389 --> 00:19:02.330 If we're starting out. 00:19:02.670 --> 00:19:08.629 With AI technology to rewrite that formula that we lean into prematurely. 00:19:09.249 --> 00:19:10.219 All right, let's get back to Jed. 00:19:10.830 --> 00:19:16.554 So That's, you know, really where we want to invest right now is helping 00:19:16.624 --> 00:19:18.614 our team do as much as possible. 00:19:18.735 --> 00:19:23.835 And then honestly, before adding more people, I think we really want to figure 00:19:23.835 --> 00:19:27.605 out, do we need to because our, our desired motion, and then this, this 00:19:27.605 --> 00:19:31.635 applies just to us, I'd say, you know, or companies that feel like they are 00:19:31.675 --> 00:19:34.874 us a bottoms up product led growth. 00:19:35.685 --> 00:19:37.815 No self service company at its core. 00:19:38.145 --> 00:19:41.665 We do have enterprise, but it's enterprise with a little e. 00:19:41.985 --> 00:19:47.605 These aren't gigantic contracts that we're going out trying to hunt for. 00:19:47.845 --> 00:19:50.665 These are companies coming in that are pre qualified. 00:19:50.665 --> 00:19:52.315 They're telling us we need Descript. 00:19:52.805 --> 00:19:56.889 And so I want to arm my team with as much You know, knowledge and AI is possible. 00:19:57.179 --> 00:20:01.169 And, you know, it started with, Hey, everybody, we get Clearbit. 00:20:01.199 --> 00:20:03.969 We actually can learn who everybody is as they're coming in. 00:20:04.219 --> 00:20:05.939 And now, I mean, the sky's the limit. 00:20:05.949 --> 00:20:08.629 We can have it as our deal making assistant. 00:20:08.970 --> 00:20:15.069 Um, on my, on my list to experiment with, there's several companies and tools 00:20:15.069 --> 00:20:17.410 for helping you with security reviews. 00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:21.270 There are several tools that help you with, uh, legal contract review. 00:20:21.270 --> 00:20:23.420 So I don't have to always go to the lawyers every single time. 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.720 They can help me more intelligently decide what's a risk and what's not. 00:20:27.350 --> 00:20:28.930 That's something I think will really help us. 00:20:33.260 --> 00:20:37.149 Talking 2 Loud, hosted by Chris Savage, is brought to you by the 00:20:37.149 --> 00:20:41.519 HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. 00:20:41.520 --> 00:20:47.820 On this podcast, Chris Savage, Wistia's CEO and loudest talker, takes you 00:20:47.820 --> 00:20:51.800 inside the minds of entrepreneurs as they share the hilarious, 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.380 informative, and most challenging aspects of building more human brands. 00:20:57.260 --> 00:21:00.819 You can hear episodes like building a reusable notebook empire with 00:21:00.819 --> 00:21:06.040 entrepreneur Joe LeMay or the AI video revolution with Wistia's own 00:21:06.060 --> 00:21:07.860 head of production, Chris Levine. 00:21:08.450 --> 00:21:11.480 Listen to Talking Too Loud, wherever you get your podcasts. 00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:20.090 You've mentioned the word, like, in a way we're a bug, you know, if I could 00:21:20.090 --> 00:21:25.059 quote you in the process, if we have to get involved, you're talking about, you 00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:29.449 know, try to just drive productivity and streamline and use technology. 00:21:29.969 --> 00:21:32.669 Do you think like, you're going to see this at your company or we're 00:21:32.669 --> 00:21:37.030 going to see this at companies where like culturally, maybe some of your 00:21:37.040 --> 00:21:41.564 frontline people are like concerned, You know, like I don't want to feel 00:21:41.564 --> 00:21:43.465 like a bug and I'm doing all this work. 00:21:43.465 --> 00:21:45.915 Am I actually just putting myself out of a job? 00:21:45.935 --> 00:21:49.804 I think sometimes in ITech we felt that, but like, it's very real with AI. 00:21:51.595 --> 00:21:52.165 Yeah. 00:21:53.154 --> 00:21:57.965 So if we, if we look at ourselves as first of all, we all work for Descript. 00:21:59.024 --> 00:22:02.305 Another thing that you should know about my team and how I'm trying 00:22:02.305 --> 00:22:06.255 to do things here is we are a non commissioned sales environment. 00:22:06.565 --> 00:22:10.975 So I want everybody doing what's in the best interest for Descript, similar to 00:22:11.015 --> 00:22:15.574 a software engineer and our teams can best allocate their time to which bugs 00:22:15.575 --> 00:22:18.545 they work on and roughly what order and how much time they invest on them. 00:22:18.995 --> 00:22:25.130 I think Our sales and success team, we're pretty rigorous about how we 00:22:25.130 --> 00:22:30.640 prioritize our time, but really our job is to help with the go to market 00:22:31.040 --> 00:22:37.100 function of getting into more businesses, more creative agencies, more studios, 00:22:37.600 --> 00:22:43.359 and then also like create a repeatable framework and maybe it relies on humans. 00:22:43.399 --> 00:22:48.900 Maybe we discover one of the secret sauces is Descript demo as done by a 00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:51.380 human with our passion and our energy. 00:22:51.710 --> 00:22:56.940 And our ability to remove any obstacle in the path that leads to 10 X bigger 00:22:56.950 --> 00:23:00.360 ACVs than if we're not involved, at which point then that's a scalable, 00:23:00.360 --> 00:23:03.350 repeatable process that we discovered. 00:23:03.590 --> 00:23:05.169 And then we can see how efficient we make that. 00:23:05.169 --> 00:23:07.470 I don't see ourselves putting ourselves totally out of business. 00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:09.159 Why'd you go in non commission? 00:23:12.089 --> 00:23:13.850 The short answer is. 00:23:14.230 --> 00:23:17.570 I have absolutely no experience as an enterprise sales professional. 00:23:18.870 --> 00:23:21.000 I have always wondered why it was a thing. 00:23:21.310 --> 00:23:25.109 I always felt extraordinarily driven and hardworking, and I didn't 00:23:25.109 --> 00:23:31.760 feel like I would ever do anything different if I had a commission. 00:23:31.969 --> 00:23:34.779 But there's also a lot of examples that I've come across, Mark, and especially 00:23:34.780 --> 00:23:38.959 since we're, we're very, we're still very early days of what we're doing, that we 00:23:39.070 --> 00:23:43.195 would have made some decisions that Run at odds with what the product team needs. 00:23:43.364 --> 00:23:46.375 We would have sold into org organizations that might not have 00:23:46.375 --> 00:23:47.745 been good long term customers. 00:23:48.125 --> 00:23:52.815 We would have made some deals that could have churned within 12 months, 18 00:23:52.815 --> 00:23:54.125 months and reflected very poorly on us. 00:23:54.864 --> 00:24:00.444 And, um, you know, right now I put a premium on us landing a 00:24:00.445 --> 00:24:04.574 deal with a well known customer that has high growth potential. 00:24:05.535 --> 00:24:05.915 Okay. 00:24:05.915 --> 00:24:08.825 Let's unpack this commission discussion for a second. 00:24:09.840 --> 00:24:14.720 Well, first off his last comment here of like a commission plan would 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:19.259 have ruined the first phases when they're trying to iterate product 00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:21.280 and voice of customer and debugging. 00:24:21.290 --> 00:24:21.510 It's like. 00:24:21.935 --> 00:24:24.945 Yeah, we don't need a commission plan designed in there. 00:24:25.725 --> 00:24:27.495 I've used it completely agree. 00:24:28.044 --> 00:24:30.754 Don't use a comp plan until we have like product market fit 00:24:30.784 --> 00:24:32.054 during the product iteration. 00:24:32.334 --> 00:24:33.404 It's just not right. 00:24:33.455 --> 00:24:35.574 And the people that you attract to the job are not right either. 00:24:35.834 --> 00:24:37.915 They should be at equity, kind of a base salary. 00:24:38.064 --> 00:24:39.574 They're part of the team finding fit. 00:24:40.764 --> 00:24:45.365 What I find to be intriguing is he's scaling a lot of commission plan too. 00:24:45.735 --> 00:24:46.985 Seen it here and there. 00:24:47.845 --> 00:24:50.095 Daniel Pink talked about and to sell as human. 00:24:51.085 --> 00:24:53.995 Every time I've seen it, someone runs a test next to it. 00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.190 And the traditional comp driven variable compensation 00:24:58.199 --> 00:25:00.210 driven salesperson outperforms. 00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:04.520 I don't know why I agree with Jay's sentiment. 00:25:05.210 --> 00:25:08.129 It's like the engineers aren't a variable comp plan, but they're really productive. 00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:11.410 I mean, the skin in the game is they keep their job and they have equity. 00:25:11.899 --> 00:25:13.979 Why can't that be the case for sales too? 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.460 And if it's so unique with commission, why don't we put engineers on 00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:19.730 commission plans too as well? 00:25:20.590 --> 00:25:21.800 That's a complicated one. 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:24.790 We'll see how it plays out for Descript. 00:25:25.395 --> 00:25:25.615 Okay. 00:25:25.615 --> 00:25:26.385 Let's get back to Jay. 00:25:27.595 --> 00:25:31.225 And it doesn't matter if it's 12 months, 18 months, we're, we're at 00:25:31.225 --> 00:25:32.625 a stage that we can make these bets. 00:25:32.945 --> 00:25:35.225 We can learn from these customers, bring them into the fold. 00:25:35.455 --> 00:25:40.095 If they're only two, three, four, five users, it's really not a 00:25:40.095 --> 00:25:42.415 good use of people's time to be closing a lot of those deals. 00:25:42.949 --> 00:25:46.260 So if they were commissioned, I can see they, they, they might want no 00:25:46.260 --> 00:25:49.879 part of that and they feel like I'm disincentivizing them to do those. 00:25:50.169 --> 00:25:52.980 So I actually want to do what's best for Descript right now, which is to 00:25:53.340 --> 00:25:56.049 basically focus on learning, not selling. 00:25:56.800 --> 00:25:58.020 I love that innovation. 00:25:58.489 --> 00:26:03.679 The last piece that we have to unpack that I also think is important for your vision 00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:06.709 in your role is community led growth. 00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:08.830 You mentioned it a little bit earlier. 00:26:08.830 --> 00:26:09.449 You mentioned. 00:26:10.040 --> 00:26:14.370 Uh, notion being a company that a lot of people look up to on that, 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.680 you know, personally, I feel like I'm very bullish on community growth. 00:26:18.129 --> 00:26:20.250 I was very bullish over the years on product led growth. 00:26:20.270 --> 00:26:24.550 I think they have similar parallels and we're probably like community 00:26:24.550 --> 00:26:26.960 led growth might be lagging by, you know, four or five years. 00:26:27.170 --> 00:26:27.990 We're in the infancy. 00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:30.140 Can you tell us what it is? 00:26:30.555 --> 00:26:34.935 From your perspective and why you are leaning into it so much, a descript. 00:26:35.355 --> 00:26:36.045 Absolutely. 00:26:36.045 --> 00:26:39.805 So let me, let me first go by defining it. 00:26:39.815 --> 00:26:44.865 So I look at community, community led growth is ways that we can set up. 00:26:46.080 --> 00:26:53.360 Events, activations, ways for our community, our users, and prospective 00:26:53.360 --> 00:26:57.790 users can interact with each other, can find value in interacting with each 00:26:57.790 --> 00:27:03.710 other, and can help each other obtain better usage of the Descript product. 00:27:04.280 --> 00:27:07.680 And through that better usage of the product, through product education, 00:27:07.690 --> 00:27:11.690 through sharing inspiring stories of how they use Descript to create 00:27:11.690 --> 00:27:15.040 a popular YouTube video, and then breaking down how the video is made, 00:27:15.780 --> 00:27:21.860 that is then Educate and empower future users way better than if I created 00:27:21.860 --> 00:27:23.429 the videos with our marketing team. 00:27:25.610 --> 00:27:26.850 Where did this come from? 00:27:27.639 --> 00:27:31.479 Um, in my career, before way before you would consider 00:27:31.479 --> 00:27:33.590 community community led growth. 00:27:34.409 --> 00:27:36.429 I first would see it at Avid. 00:27:36.750 --> 00:27:40.339 So again, Avid technology makes all these tools for audio recording, 00:27:40.340 --> 00:27:42.249 video recording, film, TV. 00:27:42.739 --> 00:27:46.169 They would put on these dinners and they would invite the biggest music 00:27:46.169 --> 00:27:48.189 producers, the biggest Hollywood producers, the biggest movie makers. 00:27:48.530 --> 00:27:50.320 That are the power users of the tool. 00:27:50.570 --> 00:27:53.500 And we would do a dinner for them at conferences and trade shows. 00:27:54.080 --> 00:27:59.989 And from, from that experience, you'd have like the inner inner circle and those 00:27:59.989 --> 00:28:01.860 people would give you invaluable feedback. 00:28:01.869 --> 00:28:03.490 They'd introduce you to new studios. 00:28:03.710 --> 00:28:05.919 You'd make deals out of a dinner like that. 00:28:05.919 --> 00:28:07.840 And you weren't even anticipating it happening. 00:28:08.529 --> 00:28:12.330 I'm having another light bulb moment now. 00:28:12.330 --> 00:28:17.420 It's like, I knew he was a big proponent of community led growth 00:28:18.100 --> 00:28:19.410 and I love community led growth. 00:28:19.850 --> 00:28:22.899 I love methodologies that put the customer at the center of it. 00:28:23.990 --> 00:28:29.230 At the same time, he is calling this thing champions, but I really think 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:33.540 in our more normal nomenclature today, he's all about jetting referrals. 00:28:34.560 --> 00:28:39.340 And I'm really starting this to see this like culture coming together, 00:28:40.159 --> 00:28:44.639 this go to market culture that's built on top of this community led growth 00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:47.880 approach that I hadn't seen before. 00:28:48.260 --> 00:28:51.730 And I, I think Jay is doing some really special stuff with his commentary on 00:28:52.830 --> 00:28:56.130 And his commentary on cumulative growth, which I hadn't seen connected, but 00:28:56.150 --> 00:28:58.260 they're very much in the same bucket. 00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:00.620 I think we're onto something exciting here. 00:29:01.199 --> 00:29:02.239 All right, let's get back to Jay. 00:29:03.840 --> 00:29:06.280 But towards the outer rings, you'd have these forums. 00:29:06.320 --> 00:29:11.200 One of them was the DigiDesign user group or DigiDesign user conference, where users 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.629 were basically not only sharing tips on like how to fix bugs with each other, but 00:29:16.310 --> 00:29:20.240 You know, here's how I recorded the snare drum on this classic track, or here's how 00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:21.950 I get the best tone out of my guitar amp. 00:29:23.169 --> 00:29:27.220 These were just inspiring places that the more people who were in those 00:29:27.220 --> 00:29:32.399 forums, bigger the user base got and the more informed and educated it became. 00:29:32.709 --> 00:29:37.134 And I started seeing this, like every great company, every great tool provider. 00:29:37.395 --> 00:29:40.465 Has their version of this and sometimes it's on discord. 00:29:40.835 --> 00:29:42.165 Sometimes it's a private slack. 00:29:42.165 --> 00:29:43.395 Sometimes it's live events. 00:29:44.285 --> 00:29:48.315 Um, when we wanted to crystallize around a model that we're going to 00:29:48.315 --> 00:29:50.884 shamelessly copy, we looked at Notion. 00:29:51.595 --> 00:29:55.044 So credit to Ben Lang and the team at Notion. 00:29:55.434 --> 00:29:57.645 Also for all the insight and wisdom they've given me. 00:29:58.420 --> 00:30:03.280 They have this insane community where they have users who will not only share 00:30:03.280 --> 00:30:06.590 their templates with others, they'll teach you how to build templates. 00:30:06.639 --> 00:30:07.960 They'll teach you how to use the templates. 00:30:08.429 --> 00:30:14.630 They will host pop up events entirely owned, planned, and operated all around 00:30:14.630 --> 00:30:17.120 the world by these passionate users. 00:30:17.329 --> 00:30:21.045 And these users Maybe they're on like a 30 a month plan. 00:30:21.155 --> 00:30:25.885 It's not that they're the highest ACV users or like champions with a 00:30:25.885 --> 00:30:29.475 capital C, but they're people that are kind of more powerful than that. 00:30:29.495 --> 00:30:32.974 They're people that are going to invest their time, their 00:30:32.974 --> 00:30:34.924 credibility, their energy. 00:30:35.320 --> 00:30:37.880 Towards educating and empowering other users. 00:30:38.370 --> 00:30:44.430 If you have a product that just has this wow factor, I, I made that up. 00:30:44.430 --> 00:30:46.749 It's a horrible term, but just something where you're looking at it 00:30:46.749 --> 00:30:48.030 and you're like, this, this is magical. 00:30:48.030 --> 00:30:49.519 I would do anything about this. 00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:52.220 And there's only like a few tools in my life. 00:30:52.249 --> 00:30:55.549 I feel that way about if any other company asked me to be a champion, 00:30:55.570 --> 00:30:58.860 I'd say no, except for these like, you know, top two or three tools. 00:31:00.155 --> 00:31:04.425 So if someone's out there listening, a founder or an early sales leader, 00:31:04.425 --> 00:31:05.605 they're like, well, we got to do that. 00:31:05.705 --> 00:31:07.315 How do you get started with community? 00:31:08.945 --> 00:31:14.185 Talk to your community, find the people that you feel like are your biggest fans. 00:31:14.750 --> 00:31:18.780 Even if there's only, if your company has 10 customers, find the ones that like, 00:31:19.280 --> 00:31:22.760 you'd be most likely to want to go out to dinner with or have a cocktail with. 00:31:23.030 --> 00:31:28.320 That'll just tell you straight up what's going on and what they need 00:31:28.660 --> 00:31:30.560 and treat it as customer discovery. 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.450 Just as you would go to those customers to figure out what to build next or where 00:31:34.450 --> 00:31:38.810 the market's going, figure out where they're hanging out, figuring out what 00:31:38.810 --> 00:31:44.580 else they need to accomplish their job or to solve the problems they have or to. 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.590 You know, make them better creatively. 00:31:49.270 --> 00:31:53.860 And so by bringing in those early pioneers, you're going 00:31:53.860 --> 00:31:54.590 to hear a lot of things. 00:31:54.590 --> 00:31:55.480 Like where do they hang out? 00:31:55.489 --> 00:31:56.460 Do they want to discord? 00:31:56.580 --> 00:31:57.550 Are they better on Slack? 00:31:58.020 --> 00:32:01.480 Do they like to go to live events or do they like to do virtual events? 00:32:01.770 --> 00:32:06.030 You know, you're going to learn a lot very early on after 10, 20 conversations. 00:32:06.380 --> 00:32:07.440 You probably have a good idea. 00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:09.670 And then just, again, keep up that curiosity. 00:32:09.700 --> 00:32:11.490 Keep asking why as you go along. 00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:15.829 Jay, we've explored so much ground. 00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:19.010 On sort of the forefront of go to market. 00:32:19.100 --> 00:32:24.100 I'm so excited that someone like yourself found yourself in this 00:32:24.100 --> 00:32:26.830 role in a company like Descript. 00:32:26.840 --> 00:32:30.020 So I really appreciate you dropping this knowledge with us today. 00:32:30.310 --> 00:32:30.790 Thank you, Mark. 00:32:30.790 --> 00:32:31.399 Thanks for having me. 00:32:39.739 --> 00:32:42.580 Today's episode is written and produced by Matthew Brown. 00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:44.180 Our show is edited by. 00:32:46.030 --> 00:32:49.390 Big thanks to HubSpot for Startups and to the HubSpot Podcast 00:32:49.430 --> 00:32:51.130 Network for keeping the audio on. 00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:55.209 Hey, also we're a new show, so if you like what you hear, or if you hate what 00:32:55.209 --> 00:32:58.869 you hear, leave us a rating and review over on your favorite podcast player. 00:32:58.879 --> 00:32:59.790 I love the feedback. 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:01.840 Also, check out Stage 2 Capital. 00:33:02.020 --> 00:33:07.790 We're the first VC firm running back by over CCOs. 00:33:08.280 --> 00:33:11.540 So if you're an entrepreneur looking to scale your business, check out stage2. 00:33:11.580 --> 00:33:11.960 capital. 00:33:12.349 --> 00:33:13.610 All right, that's it for today. 00:33:13.830 --> 00:33:14.600 I'm Mark Roberge. 00:33:14.610 --> 00:33:15.220 See you next week.